PNZWGN wrote:Makes me wonder what all of the current W460 AC users are going to do when their blower fans crap out..?
It is not just W460 but also W463 till 2000-2001 and later W461. Same situation with evaporator: no aftermarkets in stock currently, Mercedes shows and for example local official dealer here asks 1567€, for kicks, the blower is 1137€. And few G specific A/C lines and hoses are NLA, I tried to order many of them. Only hope is that when Mercedes runs out of blowers and evaporators they order another run and manufacturer makes a batch for general market. What makes situation weird is that W461 vehicles what uses same parts are still in production.
W124 blower fan is similar, but dimensions are different, wheels seems larger and overall width narrower. There are other similar Hella units but it is lot of digging to find right parts. Those plastic wheels are actually very light, what makes them also bit fragile, but I don’t think that balance is big issue; there is also Mercedessource video where he offers W124 and W201 motors without fans and his special tool to remove them and does not mention balancing.
I recently ordered W461 parts (A4618301000, A4618370000) for cabin air filter: beside better air for self and cleaner interior, I do hope it will extend life of fan motor brushes and bearings as less dust and moisture will reach to it. As dcurbet wrote that for A/C vehicles the hood grill has a plate in centre that water cannot go directly into air intake and extra drains inside on sides that water entering will flow to rail top of firewall. Do you have or plan to install a recirculation flap?
PNZWGN wrote:If you don't mind a write-up I would definitely like to see it. I hate to ask but anything I can learn will certainly help. It doesn't have to be pretty. Thanks man.
I started from situation that the W463 shell I bought had most of A/C parts. Just no compressor, no condenser and no line between condenser and compressor. But it was R-12 system. I don’t have really a dire need for A/C here, other than drying damp air time to time, also vehicle will have glass sunroof, power windows and sliding rear windows. But I am very intrigued by challenge to make one work with OM617A. And I want to use mostly MB parts.
As this thread started with HVAC unit
, I will route from that.
Unit what was in my shell is same as on your pictures, early one from 1989, so actually it does not have 463 code on yet, only 460 one, very new ones have also W461 codes. It has internal fan resistor
but I will go with external; I cut hole to air intake wall as W463 A/C subsequent install manual directed, I have posted those files in this forum but I can do it again if needed. Resistor itself is common from W124, part A1248210760. If it goes bad, you don’t have to remove whole dash for this.
If I cannot find a new evaporator
for reasonable price till assembly time I will use the existing R12 one, it looks good, on pictures there seems to be no differences with R134a one except mounting to expansion valve, nuts versus clamping plate. R134a evaporator: MB A4638300058, HELLA 8FV 351 211-521.
is something to always have a new one. You have to look that it has right mounting pattern and for right gas. Some parts claim to be compatible with multiple gases, I am not an A/C expert here to know if it is possible as some info says that valve is specific to gas. I think that R134a clamped one is A1408300484.
Now, if you are or someone else is going to use something like Sanden compressor, generic condenser, lines and wiring then following might be not much help. Except bracket section. Compressor
I will be using MB one, made by Denso, 10PA15C, uses R134a. I got it from W124 and has MB code A0002340611. Compressors used by Mercedes has rev sensor and control module compares it with engine RPM, if difference is too big it will disconnect the clutch. I cleaned it and got all new seals. I had bit trouble finding V-belt pulley to replace serpentine one. Many V-belt pulleys are large and used on tractors: that messes up compressor RPMs and belt location. Finally got one 134mm O.D. from Pajero II. Later found out that 500GE also has R134a compressor with V-belt, 10PA17C, A0002340111. But using this rev feature requires that you can feed suitable RPM signal to module, I have an OM617 transmission adapter plate (6170110245) with signal pickup from flywheel, it will also drive my W463 tach, albeit with small error: difference between OM603 and OM617 flywheels is 144 vs 140 teeth.
For compressor mounting
I found original N/A engine bracket and modified the heck out of it. I tried M115 water pump housing and some thermostats but in the end went with original A/C one (6172031473) but replaced cap with shorter from M103/M104 (1032030274).Here I must thank all the people who have done this before me, it would be much harder to figure out things if there would be no information shared in various forums. Hopefully someone in future finds few bits here and all is not too crap.
Here are pictures of various stages.
I shaved off the base and relocated rear leg from motor mount to alternator bracket. There is also reinforcement behind the leg and bushings under holes. Extended the bracket height, added threaded bases for compressor mount, and lots of ribs. Other option instead modifying bracket leg is have a different turbo oil drain pipe.
The spacing is so that there is room between compressor and alternator for pipe to turbo.
Later when I got right thermostat housing, the front edge needed some cutting, instead of using washers I got a bushing with right height for tensioner welded into place with thick ribs. Washers are used because turbo engine pulley is different from N/A. Last modification I realized to make was to have front hole large enough that water pump can be replaced without taking this god damn awful monstrum off in engine bay when pump wets itself.
I read that common issue is this bracket developing cracks. For that I tried to mount compressor as near to engine as possible. I hope that 10 piston Denso is smoother than old Yorks. I think it is very important to get the bracket sit very snug and tight, also by EPC the mounting hardware is 10.9 studs and bolts, some 12.9. One problem with this bracket remains, that the tensioning pulley is on tight side, what is not an ideal solution. Tensioning mechanism itself is also weird, but I will try it out first if Mercedes thought it to be sufficient. Cooling hose to bottom of radiator will run over the belt with plenty of space.
I picked up one from W210 E-class, A2108300570.
I thought long going with W463 aluminium radiator, as I have it and mounting parts, and then it would have been real easy to mount G condenser but I really don’t like the internal oil cooling. I may be wrong but I think it is a joke. For mounting a proper oil cooler inside right wing I would had to relocate washer tank, what would have needed relocating vacuum tank from left to frame… And mounting any fragile finned metal piece flowing engine oil below front frame tube on 4x4 is above my brain geometry. So I will have a heavy brass radiator with separate oil cooler.
As I understand, the bigger condenser the better. W210 has actually larger core than G, it covers exactly whole radiator and oil cooler, and fits between intercooler. One deciding factor was also threaded line connections. And it costs one tenth of G one. In the end there were few other potential candidates but at start, going through Hella catalogue, it is bit overwhelming.
I had to cut off valve from pipe and weld hole shut, also remove old and make a new bracket what secures those pipes. Custom brackets for mounting but those are made transferable. And brackets to radiator and cutting of bit of radiator edge reinforcement. I don’t have good detail pictures but if interested I can make them.
Here is condenser peeking out at bottom, as wide as radiator and oil cooler; faintly visible two brackets welded to metal parts of radiator where condenser sits.
Here is where the connection comes out at bottom, one will go to dryer and other to compressor.
For a dryer
I just bought a G one, A4635000249. This is another part what is always recommended to swap out for new. Originally on this shell dryer sat outside under grille but due intercooler the space was gone. I still have the old bracket, also original steering cooler for holding one fan and spare air flap piece. I ordered new bracket for mounting dryer into engine bay corner, A4635012520, seen on above picture. Lines.
Original routing with OM603 was around engine as compressor was on left side: from expansion valve one line went into engine bay under pedal box and other under battery. I got another original line and now both connections are under battery, like some gas engine early W463s or most W460s (?). All my connections will be UNF threads, I doubt if it something anyone else wants to chase. If you need I can make a pictures and measure those cabin lines, not sure on their exact codes. From condenser to dryer I already found a Mercedes piece, what needs just longer new hose part, A4635009272, comes with valve. Like old interior pieces this is made of steel, newer G lines are made of something called aluminium. Now I have a bunch of W124 lines for compressor mountings but I can deal with this when body and frame is one. One G line used with M103 engine would be ideal but it is NLA. The system needs high and low valve and if Mercedes control is used, one sensor port on one line, another one is on dryer. Mercedes passenger cars also have mufflers on lines.
For wiring and control
I have original harness. Needs some modification for dual fans, maybe better watertight connectors to engine bay. Schematic for those things is same, like in install manual, till everything went to full CanBUS. I know that last production year OM617 turbo SD vehicles had A/C disconnect switch for full throttle, and that many modern vehicles still do this but I don’t see it on 90s G or other Mercedes diagrams. Maybe the control module recognises rapidly rising RPMs but it does not make exactly sense to me.
One another G specific part for original system is dash thermostat switch, A0038209610, Ranco K57 H7000/001. There is no generic replacement but it is like a fridge part, measures temperature near expansion valve by capillary tube and clicks clutch of compressor on-off depending pressure on spring dialled by knob.
There is nothing overwhelmingly complex in such A/C systems. Getting it packaged nice and tight tho…
It sure came a long text, probably forgot something important and fouled up some language in haste. But let it be answered and clarified next time.