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w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

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7.92Kurtz
Posts: 25

w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#1 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:16 am

Hey guys,
Still learning the ins and outs here but I am interested in helping my buddy's 617a and there appears to be a grinding sound when the car is in neutral and the clutch is not engaged. Is this a throw out bearing issue? See the video below and let me know your thoughts.

[url]https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMI8imTBjueVRONVehHO5isAjwP1u__5HVY6apwm3rNyf-RBy4yheQWO4rFSJ2HIQ/photo/AF1QipPFnr2-9ozp3v9rGgKF0fgMaXgFOhHdrgllWGfR?key=dVN4dkpNRWRoeUlIdWZIakhPSkF4UFRsMmZEUjN3

Thanks in advance!

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e9coupe
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Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#2 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:24 am

The throw out bearing (release bearing) is used when the clutch is depressed not when it's engaged. Sounds like a bearing may be going out on the main shaft. You might be able to use a stethoscope or long screwdriver to listen at the front and rear of the gearbox to figure out which bearing, but it has to come apart either way.
Dan
Rocklin, CA
2000 G500 Europa
1979 280GE LWB (om617a swap)

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Winston
Posts: 3110

Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#3 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:47 am

I assume this is the getrag 717.x 5 speed?

I have one of these getrags freshly rebuilt in my 461 and it makes a clattering noise -- wouldn't call it grinding -- when in neutral without clutch pedal pressed. I'd say the noise in that video is of the same nature as the noise in my getrag, but mine is less exaggerated and even intermittent.

What I've been told from the builder is that noise is one of the "quirks/features" of the Getrag and doesn't mean doom. However, he intimated that the long-term solution is a different transmission.
461.318
IG @oldironmash

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e9coupe
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Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#4 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:30 am

Winston wrote:I assume this is the getrag 717.x 5 speed?

I have one of these getrags freshly rebuilt in my 461 and it makes a clattering noise -- wouldn't call it grinding -- when in neutral without clutch pedal pressed. I'd say the noise in that video is of the same nature as the noise in my getrag, but mine is less exaggerated and even intermittent.

What I've been told from the builder is that noise is one of the "quirks/features" of the Getrag and doesn't mean doom. However, he intimated that the long-term solution is a different transmission.

I didn't/can't listen to the video right now but I'm familiar with the Getrag "clatter". Gears have a little slop are hitting against each other on the shaft when there's no load on them. Oil type can affect this quite a bit, some mixing with a thicker grade to help reduce it.
Dan
Rocklin, CA
2000 G500 Europa
1979 280GE LWB (om617a swap)

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w123_sedan_guy
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Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#5 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:34 am

Does the truck drive and feel like the clutch engages normally other than the sound? If not, it could be some failure of the clutch friction disk. A broken spring, rivet or something like that.
- Kyle

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jonathan joseph
Posts: 1407

Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#6 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:19 am

I have seen throw out bearings (release bearing) make noise like that when the clutch is engaged. (Not this specific trans) I think depending on the clearances sometimes the throw out bearing can come in contact with the pressure plate springs occasionally and get spun a little. I think when under the full pressure and load of disengaging the sound goes away. I think a good test is to put a little pressure on the clutch pedal until you can feel the bearing contacting the pressure plate springs but not too much and see if the sound changes. I used to do this all the time as a mechanic and could tell that the noise was coming form the bearing. Usually it was a prematurely failing bearing. Often people cheap out and just replace the clutch plate and nothing else. Big mistake because next time you're pulling the trans just to replace the cheapest part in there. That being said I've seen some continue to work for a long time while making noise. Not sure this will help but I thought it always worth it to offer one more idea.
Jonathan

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e9coupe
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Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#7 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:04 pm

Finally listened to the video and that's not normal Getrag clatter, that's most likely a bad bearing. Does it make the sound at any other time besides in neutral?
Dan
Rocklin, CA
2000 G500 Europa
1979 280GE LWB (om617a swap)

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inkblotz
Posts: 8202

Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#8 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:02 am

Nope I recognize that bearing rattle. Typical early Getrag. Dai C had a special bearing made to combat this.

blueg
Posts: 2318

Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#9 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:44 am

Pilot bearing that centers trans input with engine output wears and is somewhat tolerant by nature. G class in it's early stages was not the status symbol it has become. In Europe the G was one step up from a tractor. 617A engines were not stock ever in the G class and I found information that some engines had a brass pilot bushing rather than a needle bearing as pilot. These would obviously be wear parts and need replacement periodically. Also oil grade will play a major roll in internal wear. Rough service and luxury are hard partners to maintain.

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e9coupe
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Re: w460 5spd throw out bearing issue?

Post#10 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:02 pm

inkblotz wrote:Nope I recognize that bearing rattle. Typical early Getrag. Dai C had a special bearing made to combat this.

Really? Wow that's a loud rattle compared to what I'm used to in the BMWs. That works be very annoying.
Dan
Rocklin, CA
2000 G500 Europa
1979 280GE LWB (om617a swap)

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