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If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

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Gelande
Posts: 5327

If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#1 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:37 am

There is often a lot of curious folks in CA that see vehicles that are non-conforming 49 state cars but have CA plates, so naturally they automatically think it is possible to do this or buy this from a seller or dealer out of the state and make it work.

It is not possible for non-Europa G500 and non MBUSA or MB Canada cars unless you follow the state's own CA-specific import requirements for gray market cars.

CA people please do not expect any seller outside CA to tell you if a car is going to be legal in CA. If you chose to live in that state, then you should do the diligence to research the rules and the costs. I see sellers being penalized for saying the wrong thing....guess what it's not the 49 state seller's responsibility to live by CA's crazy rules if they don't live there.

If the car does not have a CARB certification sticker, and you have not verified that sticker's specific number and its "attachment" to the car's VIN by calling CARB, it is illegal in CA. Sticker cost is $8500-$16,000, takes about 4 months.

That's the only answer. There are no "but what if's"

Don't expect sellers and importers to do this for you on gray market cars.

ONLY YOU, not an agent, or a dealer, or the seller, or an appraiser,BUT ONLY YOU "THE PROSEPTECTIVE BUYER" SHOULD PRE-VERIFY THE STICKER's LEGITIMACY with CARB on the PHONE!!

sorry for the all caps but hey if you recall one sentence from this thread that should be it.

Why?
Only THE BUYER can empower him or herself early on in a search for a G or whatever gray they are looking for that meets fancy. Also because it is not a dealer's job or seller's job to verify. That might sound unfair, but that's how it is.

US rules are used but in ADDITION to CA specific rules
Take note that just because USA rules say something, that means nothing for CA.

Tons of gray market cars are being brought in to the USA now and last couple years, more than I've seen since 1985 after which it was originally banned. Just look on ebay, the flood is insane, probably up 300% or more in 24 months now. I am not just talking Gwagens. Every marque has gray market models their fans seek overseas.

The line up at the CARB ref is getting long, so be prepared to be patient, wait, and take whatever time it takes. Some cars get done in 6 weeks others take 6 months. It all depends on demand and who's making the demand for tests. The good news is they are getting a lot of practice! The bad news is you need to be prepared to wait and it seems like extortion but its just the process, all off which is available for you to read about in advance on the CARB web site. CA did not seem to anticipate this sudden flood of importation (although they likely should have).

There are also tons of pages devoted to these rules on our club website forum, please search it and post your questions to those threads not to seller classified ad listings.

Following the rules gets ANY 49 state G 460 or 463 to be legal in CA.

It's really quite simple.

In the end the only question is, Does the car you have for sale have a State of California Air Resource Board certification sticker either in the door jam or on the driver's side of the dash frame?

Yes it does: proceed to next step

No it does not: Move onto the next ad

If Yes, call CARB and verify the cert using the VIN number, year, model.

Note to sellers: Having a buyer call CARB to verify your car will NOT BLACKLIST your car or put your car on any list just for checking. This has been asked many times before but there is not penalty for verification requests on gray market chassis in CA.

Last note: Even if the car you are buying or selling has a current California registration. YOU MUST NOW REALIZE THAT THE NEXT OWNER MAY HAVE PROBLEMS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VERIFIED CARB CERTIFICATION.
If you have a petrol truck, it is easy to verify just by completing the required smog check, because Smog computer will block a Smog check if CARB cert is not attached that VIN in the Database.



cheers


User avatar
Gelande
Posts: 5327

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#3 » Tue May 16, 2017 4:12 am

And from the forums:

Vadimivanovich's excellent thread on importing diesels into CA
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6384

Another one:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7664&hilit=CARB

And more:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6836&hilit=CARB

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5064&hilit=CARB

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4589&p=32277&hilit=CARB#p32277


Note that changes continue to occur in rules, with many changes starting in 2009. What got a vehicle in before then is different than now.

User avatar
Gelande
Posts: 5327

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#4 » Tue May 16, 2017 4:20 am

Here's one that's even harder to get.... and owners of vehicles like these will outpay you and get your place in line

Note that all CARB certs since about 1999 have the site code for the test center and also the date of the test in the upper right corner. Test centers have to keep records, so if you are wondering for a certain car what's been done, you can track this info down if the seller does not provide the paperwork from the lab cert. (often this has been lost, but papers are always and were always provided showing exactly what was added to the vehicle and test data)
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TechMOGogy
Posts: 3239

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#5 » Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 am

From all the non CA people... Thank you for this sticky!
That question gets asked at least once a week it seems and having a dedicated thread will, hopefully, help those in CA looking for a G (esp. a diesel G)!
Thanks!
PUCH IT: 72 Haflinger Pathfinder - 75 Pinzgauer 710M 2.7i - 96 Puch 350GDT Worker

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jsuntai
Posts: 526

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#6 » Tue May 16, 2017 6:37 am

Thanks Mike!

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Otiswesty
Posts: 9465

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#7 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:22 pm

What about pre-98 diesels that do not get smog checked. Can they be retitled?
461.213, 463.241

User avatar
Gelande
Posts: 5327

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#8 » Wed May 17, 2017 2:06 am

As of 2017 ARB release only 1979 G diesel is exempted

https://www.arb.ca.gov/html/master_faqs/vehicle_faqs/greymarket_cars_faq.htm

Exemptions
Diesel vehicles:

1979 model year and older vehicles with original-equipment diesel engines are exempt from Direct Import lab testing requirements. Please note that any vehicle converted to operate on diesel fuel is subject to lab testing requirements if it is a 1968 model year vehicle or newer.
. Note! Must be original engine!

Here is the contact for any questions or rule interpretation

Ms Veronica Longhi
(626) 575-6642
vlonghi@arb.ca.gov

and you can monitor their list serve

dcurbet
Posts: 6454

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#9 » Wed May 17, 2017 12:57 pm

Great write up and I just want to understand what makes the cost as high you list it? I spoke with Veronica and also George and his Estimate over the phone to me was $6000. I guess something can come up but when he told me the number it was specifically for my 91G 300 diesel. He said it would take 8 to 12 weeks and I could go straight to the DMV after I pick up the vehicle.

User avatar
Gelande
Posts: 5327

Re: If you want a G in California, Please Read This First

Post#10 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:50 am

If you get the cert that cheap and fast you can consider yourself one of the lucky few ever.

The amounts of time and money I posted were just a width based on what I have been told over the past 15 years by club members, and friends and clients.

So I think that is awesome and so great to hear that they have quoted this short amount of time and small price of $6k, and maybe price is coming down overall and that would be fabulous for everyone!

Seems from anecdotal sources over the past 20 yrs or so that there have been differences for price between models, between 460/463 and depending what each G that goes to a lab had been fitted with originally, or upon import, especially the petrol cars. This comes down to whether they need all new gear, some new gear, or just a test and some adjustments.

If George or other labs could come up with a fixed price or at least some understandable tiers, that sure would be great, but I have never seen that.

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