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5-Speed Auto in a W460

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 8643

5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#1 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:43 pm

This thread is a collection of information I have found regarding the installation of the 722.6 transmission in a W460.

After much consideration, I've chosen a 5-speed auto over the Getrag 5-speed manual to be used in my 606a swap this winter. I'm certainly not the first to have the idea to use the 722.6 in a G but there's much to learn so I thought I'd post some of my findings in case there are any others out there interested in the same thing:

First, if you are wondering why the 722.6, it's an extremely tough transmission made by MB and used in many other vehicles such as Land Rover, Porsche, Chrysler, and others. The 722.6 is also capable (if the right version) of handling massive amounts of tourque (it's even used in the V12s) - something the manual transmissions lack, at least "officially".

I'm assuming that most G owners would only want to consider the 5-speed auto if they are also installing a 606 or 606a diesel. Most would say that this is the diesel of choice for USA-based owners since many of the alternatives were never offered here. As such, you must select a transmission from an M104 or M111 engined vehicle. These will have the correct bell housing to mate to the 606. One added benefit of this is the transmissions from most 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles will have lower gearing in 1st and 2nd gears - better for off-road conditions, and still great around town considering the weight of the G. Transmissions from the larger-engined vehicles will have taller gearing which will give you sluggish performance at low speeds.

It should also be noted that the 722.6 has gone through a long process of improvement since it was introduced in 1996. As such, the newer the transmission, the better it will be. Obviously, try to get a low-mileage, late-model unit that has it's original torque converter included. Most notably, the early transmissions use bronze bushings that were later replaced with caged needle bearings. The bushings have been known to wear and cause misalignment of the planetary gears.

Once you have your transmission with the correct bell-housing and gearing, you need to evaluate its condition. If it is a late model, low mileage trans, you may be able to simply use it as-is. If not, it is a fairly easy transmission to overhaul yourself, implementing some upgrades as you go. The most common weakness is the K2 clutch pack. Smaller engined vehicles use fewer clutches, and of a smaller diameter in K2, translating to shorter life and lower torque handling. It is possible to replace the clutches, and add up to a total of 5 (I think), and I am in the process of trying to find out if the K2 assembly can be swapped for the larger diameter version used in "heavy-duty" applications.

Other basic considerations are the output flange (needs to be swapped for G type), short prop shaft (need one of the right length - probably custom but I'm not sure yet), trans mount (looks like new holes need to be drilled but not too big a deal), and most importantly the TCU. There are 3 TCU providers that I have found, all with their pros and cons. PCS appears to be a US based company that makes one TCU for use in various transmissions through configuration. The whole shebang costs around $1000 and does not officially support the 722.6, though the Seattle dealer, Sound German, offers the needed firmware. Another option, the one I'm going with, is made by Ole in Europe. The whole kit costs 650 Euros, including all options, and sensors (4-3-2-1 type shifter and TPS provided by you). One major plus is the TCU comes with its own LCD & joystick that you install in the vehicle. It can be used to configure and troubleshoot in the field, which gives some significant peace of mind.

Okay, that's as far as I got so far. I hope to add to this as the project evolves. If anyone out there has tips to help me along, please pipe in!

G Nome
Posts: 7746

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#2 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:20 pm

Vadim,

Thank you for taking the time to write up your findings from a lot of research.

It will be interesting to see what is brought up regarding the information.

Good luck with the swap. I hope this is the way to go for you. I know it is not an easy decision.

Looking forward to watching this play out.

Kent

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grazza
Posts: 1013

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#3 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:41 pm

I have been mulling this over and over in my head as to which way to go - the simplity of a manual verses the smoothness of the auto.
Will be doing something next year.
Also I want maximum fuel economy for large trips as well as peice of mind in remote locations.

My G is my first auto offroader, all others being manual (very common down here)

A friend is in the process of putting a 722.6 in his W460 using the PCS controller and is having problems, although perhaps more about having time to sort it out. Its pretty complex.
So I have been put off a bit and have been swayed to the manual.
But as you say, there are a lot of 722.6's around, more than manual boxes.

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diesel_jim
Posts: 1077

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#4 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:30 am

I'm doing the same thing here in the UK... OM606 and 722.6 auto, using Ole's controller. A friend of mine here runs Ole's kit too on a LWB 460.

In case you've not seen it, here's some pics form my build thread of the controller

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 8643

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#5 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:46 am

Diesel_Jim,

I've been studying your thread under a microscope! Thank you for posting. Ole has been very helpful, explaining many details about his controller and how various situations are handled. It appears to be very well thought out. I LOVE that it comes with everything: shifter, TPS, sensors, plus all of the wire and connectors that you need. Just hook it up, configure, and GO! The only addition I intend to make is an external output shaft hall-effect speed sensor. I'll have to figure out a solid way to mount it, and would like to use an off-the-shelf MB part for sensing, but we'll see. For now, my TCU kit is in the mail and I need to finish going through my engine :)

For a balanced decision, I have to say that Russel at Sound German is extremely knowledgeable about the 722.6 and the nuances of the PCS controller. An add-on interface kit, or a laptop are required for tuning/diagnostics, which is a bit of a downer, but he offers excellent USA-based support & his own alternate configuration files. I'm not sure if any of those are tuned for a G, but he's sold many controllers to those crazy Finns for their diesel drifters.

autonovice
Posts: 2558

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#6 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:34 am

vadimivanovich wrote:For a balanced decision, I have to say that Russel at Sound German is extremely knowledgeable about the 722.6 and the nuances of the PCS controller. An add-on interface kit, or a laptop are required for tuning/diagnostics, which is a bit of a downer, but he offers excellent USA-based support & his own alternate configuration files. I'm not sure if any of those are tuned for a G, but he's sold many controllers to those crazy Finns for their diesel drifters.


Vadim

I paid a visit to Russell a few months back on a research project. He is legit and knowleagable w/ 722.6 trans but not in a G.
I think the price is fair and he seems eager to help w/ the after sale support. From what I gathered, there is more than just plug and
play w/ the transmission & the tcm as the tuning is based on the type of the vehicle as well as the driver "driving habits".
There is a throtttle position sensor you need to install as well as tone generator.
For the transmission, he does some mods to the valve body (make holes bigger??) as well as upgrading to HD components.
He is knowleagable of 722.6 trans like Darren of Collies Autoworks but willing to take steps to fine tune the trans whereas I think Darren will
stick to MB stock parts.

Minh

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grazza
Posts: 1013

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#7 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Can I get confirmation on the setup differences required between Ole's and the PCM controllers?
Does Ole's come pre-configured to suit a G? (which is no certain thing I guess, for different 722.6 transmissions and engines)

For me the important thing is the build quality of the TCU and its wiring harness/connectors.

Any links to Ole's TCU?

thanks

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 8643

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#8 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:31 pm

Here is the STD thread where Ole developed the TCU. One great thing about it is the Arduino Mega based CPU which is cheap and easy to replace if that ever becomes a need. I've used some Arduinos in industrial machinery with no failures to date.

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thread-722-6-Special-controller

ponkokanada
Posts: 191

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#9 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:07 pm

Here is the most informative thread I came across that explains exactly what the TCU has to do. Seems like programming and electronics wouldn't be that complicated to develop but I'd hate to think how many hours it would take to tune the system to shift the way it should. Hats off to those with patience....

http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 7&start=10

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 8643

Re: 5-Speed Auto in a W460

Post#10 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:00 pm

That thread is for the MegaShift GPIO (general purpose input-output board) made by Bowling & Grippo, the makers of the Megasquirt fuel injection controller. I built a Megasquirt & it's very good; not very expensive. The main problem is, as you've said, programming & configuring everything. Ole's Arduino TCU uses open-source C programming language (I assume he protects his code though) and gives you more flexibility with a more universal set of tools. I'm not experienced with the GPIO but did consider it. PCS has a closed, proprietary system.

By the way, that graphic is pulled straight from the ATSG 722.6 overhaul manual. There is a lot more useful information in there, but the bottom line is that you'll end up doing a lot of development on your own, possibly ruining the transmission in the process.

Ole, or his brother (mbpeppe on the forum), has his controller working in a W463 with a 606a swap. That says a lot to me. An actual successful G application - sign me up!

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