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Hi From Canada

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 6545

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#21 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:47 am

The original G-version 617 oil pan is a very large cast-aluminum unit that does not have a separate sump & gasket. This pan does retain the lower portion of the RMS. I have not replaced a 617 rear main, and I have not pulled the G-version oil pan, but most people live with a drip unless/until it becomes a stream. I doubt there is enough room to fully remove the oil pan.

If you're going to pull the engine (about 2-3 hrs of work) you might consider just swapping in a non-leaky 617 turbo engine in it's place. That and a Dieselmeken fuel pump will give you 200 HP and a huge boost to your investment.
"The way you think is the way you live"

BC725
Posts: 23

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#22 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Thanks for the note vadimivanovich. Where is the best place to source a motor like that? Anyone on here have a line on them? What kind of price range for a well sorted one?

blueg
Posts: 1162

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#23 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:20 pm

You can hunt Kijiji for 617 turbo diesel from mid 80's sedan. 300d,cd,sd.
There are also a few scrap yards that set the low mileage units aside but getting more scarce.
I have found the best way is to buy a mid 80's sedan that is cosmetically poor but the engine and drivetrain is obviously previously well maintained.
That way you also get many extras with the car like A/C, oil lines, block heater, radio head, linkages, electrical harnesses, spare glow plug relay and right size nuts and bolts to finish your project.
You also get a VIN with the sedan to source engine parts for the G through dealership later.
A tell tail for me is an uncompromised ALDA. This means, to me, the car was kept running by proper tuning and adjustment of valves alongside regular required maintenance.
Test compression.

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 6545

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#24 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:26 am

One source for a 617 turbo (617a) is from the insurance auto auctions. If a car is wrecked at least you know it was working at the time. You might have to saw the front end off to get to the motor, but I've seen prices well under $1K for a good donor candidate. I paid $1K for my old 617a complete with everything. I'd say the price for an engine with 150K miles or less on it would be double that price today.
"The way you think is the way you live"

blueg
Posts: 1162

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#25 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:19 am

One important small that becomes huge aspect of oil pan removal.
There are dozens of M6 and M8 cap screws holding the pans on.
Some are longer and hold other fasteners with a nut on top.
Find the nuts and remove them first along with any bracket attached. Watch for spacers here too and lock washers.
A magnetic dish helps with this fiasco.
Next, and so important, take a pick and run it inside every hex head of every screw then take small allen wrench and cover over with cloth and wipe out all material especially oil in the screw heads.
Cracking these little buggers is often a one shot deal.
Buy a quality hardened steel M6 socket 1/4" drive and put on short extension.
Insert the hex bit into screw and give a couple of firm taps with med weight hammer.
Not too hard because your dealing with cast aluminum.
These taps seat the bit entirely in the cleaned out screw and help break the bonded surfaces.
Put 1/4 ratchet on extension and steadily, firmly crack the screw.
If the head strips come back to it. There may be others.
The sump is the worst because the screws sit in narrow channel created by side of pan and pressure bend on lip surrounding outside for strength.
Any screws that strip are best dealt with by drilling the top off and removal of broken screw shaft after pan is down.

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vadimivanovich
Posts: 6545

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#26 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:28 am

You can also cut a slot in the stripped allen head screw so a flat-head screwdriver can be used to remove it. I've removed many-a-fastener with this technique. Get a flat-head that has flats on the shaft so you can use a wrench to increase torque on the driver.
"The way you think is the way you live"

blueg
Posts: 1162

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#27 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:48 am

Too right Vadim.
I guess after almost losing an eye last year to a grinder disk explosion I'm a little gun shy of the grinder and cut-off style spinners.
I know a sawzall won't work.
They are more for turning hardtops into cabriolets anyway.

blueg
Posts: 1162

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#28 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:08 am

BC725
further to your oil pan leakage and RMS concern.
I am in process of replacing 617.952 upper oil pan and sump.
The ones on the truck were badly damaged somehow and whoever decided a cast aluminum pan could be fixed-- welded many fractures in several directions while pieces were still hanging on the truck.
The heat from this welding melted the oil pickup screen adapter, front main seal lips and cooked the bottom portion of radial sealing ring which forms half of the rear main seal.
My replacement pan is maybe 35 years old and has been off it's vehicle for 10 years.
I checked both upper pan's RSR and found the one in my replacement pan was very hard and when removed and bent a few degrees small cracks were obvious all around.
Pan off truck was just slightly more supple with smaller cracks forming.
If you remove upper pan it would be worth changing that RSR portion in the pan.
I also noted a small aligning or anti slip nodule at BDC of groove for the RSR on both pans.
This would make slipping the RSR stock around the groove impossible on the pan as it is supposed to be pressed in working centre up to each side and then cutting +1mm above each end.
If the block half of this groove also has a TDC nodule then loosening and lowering of crank would have to be at least thickness of RSR material as slipping in won't be feasible.

blueg
Posts: 1162

Re: Hi From Canada

Post#29 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:31 am

BC725 wrote:Hey Everyone, So I ended up picking up one of the units I was asking about and am now in deep (possibly over my head). I have 2 questions.

Does anyone know a good diesel G guru in the Calgary, Alberta area?

Am I able to remove and replace the oil pan while it is in the vehicle? I have a very small oil seep and I need to change the oil anyways so figured now is a great time to reseal this. I was just wondering is this will be surfacing new issues with RMS?

Thanks

Recently removed 617.952 oil pans
With body jacked and suspension hanging and sump removed there is enough clearance on my truck to get the upper pan out.
Now my engine sits on modified mounts (not syncro G's yet) I could pickup more space by removing oil pump adapter and screen.
However getting it back in with bead of sealant on top could prove messy and may compromise that bead.
I don't have auto tranny cooler lines to contend with either.
I have also added the crank seal (rope type)part number in one of my threads. Peach parts has reasonable.

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